July 2006 E-Newsletter

Contents:

• Article: Monty on Clicker Training
• Mary Lynne Doleys of www.peacefulpaws.us LLC shares her experience at Monty's 2005 Special Clinic
• Monty plans development of Video Conferencing with Schools
• Q&A: "I can not break my Thoroughbred mare's habit of fence pacing."
• NEW SECTION: Monty's Principles for People
• Catch Monty on tour in Perth, Australia and the UK. Click here!
• Upcoming issues

Article: Monty on Clicker Training

“The clicker part of clicker training is no problem for me.” Monty

I was working as a clinician in Springfield, Massachusetts at an event that is a major equine exposition called Equine Affaire. During the course of this event, I was asked to work with several remedial horses. One was brought to me with advice from the owner that the horse was very aggressive and dangerous about biting.

During the course of my work, I communicated with the owner and was told that the horse had been trained with the use of the technique called ‘clicker training.’ She went on to say that treats were used as a reward for the behavior desired. This horse would actually stalk me and charge with ears back and mouth open. He was a four-year-old gelding far too dangerous for any one except a professional accustomed to dealing with this problem.

While working with him, I said the following words, “This is an example of why I tell my students that I am not a fan of clicker training, especially when it involves rewards in the form of food offered from the human body. I explained that when food is associated with the human body it produces horses that bite. I believe this and hold that opinion to this day. I was able to improve the horse’s attitude in a thirty-minute session, but one could never say that I produced a certain cure. I advised the owner to stop feeding from the hand.

I told my audience that the clicker part of clicker training is no problem for me. An audible marker signal, in my opinion, can be useful as a part of any training system. The clicker is the audible marker signal. The food acts as the reward for the desired behavior. I realize that some people use clicker training more effectively than others and some are down right inept with this science.

After returning home to California, I received two emails from professional clicker trainers. Each admonished me strongly that clicker training can be a very effective method. They told me that I was criticizing clicker training because of problems I had with horses that were trained badly. One of the professional trainers was Kim Cassidy from New York.

After exchanging two or three emails, I found Kim to be open-minded and quite interested in exploring my work. I realize that she wanted me to understand more about clicker training, and I believe hopefully to change my mind about the concept. I invited her to come to Flag Is Up and…lo and behold, she accepted my invitation!

Kim decided on her own to invite another professional clicker trainer to come with her. Linda Pearson from England made the trip and they arrived on January 11 at about 9:00 a.m. I loved the opportunity to study with these two ladies. For three days we dealt with several classes of horses, raw, remedial and well trained. After returning to their respective homes, Kim and Linda each sent me a letter, and I will quote for you the essential elements of each of their writings.

DAY ONE

“My name is Kim Cassidy and I am a professional horse trainer who uses clicker training. While walking around the Equine Affaire event, I happened to watch a small portion of a Monty Roberts demonstration. I wrote him a letter about my dissatisfaction with some things he said about hand feeding and clicker training.”

“To my surprise, Monty responded to me personally. Following the exchange of a few emails, I was invited to Flag Is Up Farms. I decided to invite Linda Pearson to join me on my trip to California. Linda is from the UK and has studied Monty’s work for approximately ten years. She has successfully integrated his work with clicker training. Linda and I arrived expecting to work with trainers and maybe see Monty periodically. Well, we rounded the corner of the training barn and there was Monty himself.”

“After introductions and a short discussion about the three-day format, we proceeded to the training barn. Monty allowed us full access to a young horse that was sent to him because of biting. He told us that the horse had been trained using the clicker method. He allowed us to condition the horse to the clicking. I found this horse to be a real challenge, and Monty did not seem to be happy that there were no negative consequences when the horse decided to mug me.”

“I didn’t feel I had enough time to display clicker training properly, but we moved on to a mustang filly. Linda and I found an extremely nervous horse, spinning in her stall and jumping out of her skin. Not much was accomplished and Monty appeared within a few minutes to agree that we should take up work with this filly in the round pen the following day.”

“I was very discouraged after the first day, and Linda was too. We didn’t feel we made much progress. We did not showcase clicker training in a very good light, especially compared to the results Monty gets. Despite all of this, we were invited back for round two the next morning. That evening I found Linda ready to quit and go back home. She said, ‘We felt like complete failures and that everything he had said proved him right.’”

DAY TWO

“Linda and I showed up at 9:00 in the morning and returned to the stall of the first horse. Monty took over the training of the colt and anytime he invaded Monty’s space, he was corrected, or as Monty calls it, schooled. This means he used the Dually® halter whenever he invaded Monty’s space. The horse definitely improved dramatically. Monty’s timing was perfect…he was not abusing the horse, but he was using pressure unlike I would do in clicker training.”

“Linda and I explained that we believed this horse had been trained badly and that someone had used indiscriminate hand feeding along with clicker training. We explained again that we were against indiscriminate hand feeding…we are in full agreement with Monty on this.”

“Next we went to the nervous mustang filly. She has been sent to the farm for trailer loading problems. The owner said that she couldn’t get her on the trailer unless she was heavily tranquilized. Monty invited Linda to do a Join-Up® with the filly in his round pen. Linda did what I consider to be a beautiful Join-Up and demonstrated to Monty that after Join-Up she could use treat less clicks to show the benefit of an audible marker signal.”

“This was my first experience with real round pen training, and I must say it was beautiful to watch. I know others do it as well, but it was really like magic and the filly became calm and happy. It was clear that she was completely relaxed. Monty then spent about thirty minutes getting her onto and off a trailer. He used very little pressure, and it was amazing to watch.”

“Monty has a quiet about him. He is never rushed, and he does not get agitated. He does not get involved with the “drama” that the horse is exhibiting. This seems to be a characteristic of all good trainers, and something I will take away with me and add to my training program. I have heard many clicker trainers speak of this before, but it was helpful for me to see it used effectively by someone else.”

“During the course of loading and unloading, the filly began playing with Monty and jumping onto the trailer doing little things like prancing next to Monty showing how brave she was. It was obvious that she was very happy with herself. She seemed to be saying, ‘Finally someone is speaking my language.’ I really could feel her joy and happiness…the humans were finally getting it right.”

“It was then my turn, one of Monty’s students brought me a young Thoroughbred gelding that wouldn’t load. The owners relied on heavy drugs to load him. Monty states categorically that he will not use drugs of any kind in the training process. I did my first round pen Join-Up with this particular horse.”

“I was quite clumsy compared to Linda and a complete oaf when compared to Monty, yet I still succeeded. Monty guided me on how to use my eyes and my body to achieve Join-Up…what a feeling! I then worked with the Dually halter getting the gelding to move his feet upon request. I paired an audible click with a rub between the eyes when he did it right. I felt that Monty could appreciate the clicking now that I was pairing it with the rub and not the food. Sometimes we have to compromise to make our point.”

“After a few minutes, I took my Thoroughbred to the trailer and worked on loading him. He was very good, and I got him on the trailer rather easily. We ended on a good note, and we were really looking forward to the next day.”

DAY THREE

“Monty asked us to switch animals, so I did Join-Up with the mustang filly and Linda accomplished the same with my Thoroughbred gelding. We were both successful. Linda worked hard on marking good effort with her gelding using click and rub. The horse was much improved when compared to the day before.”

“After successful work with these two horses, Monty sent Linda to a paddock to get a little bay mustang gelding. Linda brought this horse to the round pen as Monty whispered to me that it was Shy Boy. Linda did Join-Up with Shy Boy and didn’t know who he was until it was over. When we told her she looked like she was going to burst. It seemed to be the highlight of her trip.”

“After lunch Monty brought two mustangs for us to work with. They were quite wild, but soon cooperative. I can’t believe how incredibly giving, soft and perfect the mustangs were. I almost cried when I did Join-Up with mine. It was so moving. It is hard to explain, but mustangs are very different from domesticated horses. I think Monty described them as “pure” and he is right.”

“We took them to the trailer and Linda and I both loaded our respective mustangs. It was really exciting because once they start to give you their trust, they don’t hold back. I think Monty felt great satisfaction in seeing our enjoyment. He truly loves doing this work. Despite being an incredibly busy man with many demands on his time, I think he is happiest being around the horses and training them. The happiness shines out of his smile when the human the horse get it right.”

“What we accomplished in teaching Monty about clicker training, I really don’t know. If all we did is get him to distinguish between clicker training and indiscriminate hand feeding, then I feel we accomplished a lot. If we have started an exchange of ideas between the two communities, it will be an amazing accomplishment. I really like Monty, and I think he is an incredible horse trainer.”

“Monty loves the horses and that is apparent. He repeatedly stated that respect is a fine line and it is not spelled F-E-A-R. We need to offer as much respect to the horse as we expect to get in return. I believe that Monty has brought to the horse world a new understanding.”

“I have a feeling I will seeing Monty again and that this is the beginning of a really cool journey; we shall see. After meeting Monty, I have come to appreciate what an open-minded person he is. His training approach works for him. That he took the time to consider something different, speaks highly of him. I know that I came away with a tremendous amount of knowledge that will help me as a horse trainer.”

“After returning home to my horses since seeing Monty, I have found that I have better horsemanship skills to pair with my knowledge of the clicker. My body language and my use of eye contact is much better. My timing with both negative and positive reinforcement has improved dramatically. I am able to use the release of pressure much better than before my trip. The reason I know these things to be true is because my horses are responding far better.” Kim Cassidy

The letter I received from Linda Pearson was very similar to Kim’s. I have asked them both for the opportunity to pull out those portions unique each to the individuals.

“On the second day we began to see a remarkable man with extraordinary knowledge of horses and a true openness with people. He completely devoted all of his time to us despite meetings going on all around him. I felt he wanted something from us, just as we did from him. We really felt his love and passion for the horses, and he obviously wanted us to have a part of it.”

“He worked with us using his methods, and I demonstrated where I used the clicker; we decided to use a forehead rub rather than food which worked well. We wanted him to see the benefit of an audible marker signal. He commented that he could definitely see the benefits and was happy with this work, especially now that we weren’t using food. Monty would not back down on the food business; he has seen too many horses ruined by inappropriate hand feeding. We soon realized we were all after the same thing, a better and kinder way for the horses. We found that as long as we were willing to listen to Monty, he was willing to listen to us. I feel it worked out well. We had the time of our lives working with very wild mustangs and his legendary horse, Shy Boy, as well.”

“I know there are stories out there about horse trainers, especially those in the limelight, but I assure you that Monty Roberts is a most genuine, honest and caring person. He has proved it time and time again. He is 71 years old and continues to travel the world demonstrating his methods. He welcomed us into his home and his life with horses. For that I am truly honored. Monty Roberts is living to his life’s goal which is to leave the world a better place for horses and for people too.”

One can only imagine the joy that comes from associations such as I have just brought to you. It is the horses that provide us the opportunity to become good students when we keep our minds open and have their best interest at heart. The final judgment of our work will be made by how well we observed the responses that we got from our horses. We should always be open to investigate ways to make their lives and our relationships with them better, more effective and certainly more humane. I congratulate Kim and Linda for their extraordinary effort to bring us together in the interest of finding better ways to become partners with our equine friends.

Mary Lynne Doleys Shares Her Experience at Monty's Special Clinic

Mary Lynne Doleys: The 5 days I spent at Monty Roberts’ farm is an experience I will remember always. Considering that Monty is only home about 50 days out of the year, I was quite pleasantly surprised to see how much time he was able to spend with our class. Hearing Monty speak so passionately each day on a variety of topics – whether discussing his work in England with underprivileged school children, the cruelty people commonly use to “train” horses, or his fervent hope that his students will continue his work with animals and people – was very thought-provoking. But to have the chance to watch this incredibly insightful man work day after day with horses of all kinds, from the untouched to the extremely phobic, was truly awe-inspiring. Although I had read Monty’s books and seen his videos before I arrived, I was still unprepared for just how quiet it would be in the round pen while he was working with the horses. It was fascinating to watch Monty use the language of Equus so clearly and to see each and every horse respond within seconds in a predictable manner.

The course brought out a range of emotions for me. We had the privilege of seeing Monty work several days in succession with horses who had tremendous phobias; yet, the progress that occurred during each session was tangible, and the following day, when they began to work, the horse was truly in a new and better place. Tack that had been, a day before, something to be terrified of, was no longer of any consequence. I vividly remember seeing the look of panic and distrust for humans in one particular horse’s eyes as he first tore around the round pen, and it brought tears to my eyes, wondering what his experience had been. But to see the same horse come to trust Monty and freely join up with him, then willingly follow him around, was a great triumph for the horse and truly a joy to behold.

I enrolled in Monty’s Special Class because it is a logical extension of the work I do with dogs, following the nonviolent method devised by Jan Fennell, the “Dog Listener”. Seeing Monty work with these large, strong animals without the use of force reinforces for me the idea that dogs also must be treated with respect and given benevolent leadership they can count on, not violence or fear-based methods, in order to turn their behavior issues around and help them live happy lives. These days, when I consult with clients about their dogs, I try to encourage them by letting them know that not only Monty, but also his students, are able to communicate with horses and get the best out of them, using the language of Equus. I knew when I signed up for this class that I would be in for an interesting week. What I did not count on when I enrolled was how much I would want to continue this kind of training, perhaps returning one day for the coursework that would teach me, too, how to be a better “listener”.

Special thanks to Kasia, Sally, Michelle, Giovanni, Annie (I hope I haven’t left anyone out) for your dedication, hard work, and answering so many questions – you helped make it a very valuable and memorable week! And of course, thanks to Monty for giving so much of his time, sharing his passion and his insights, and just for being who he is.

Kindest regards,
Mary Lynne Doleys
Peaceful Paws LLC

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July 19, 2006 Question and Answer

Question: I can not break my Thoroughbred mare's habit of fence pacing. The moment she loses sight of company she goes crazy and paces the fence. She is very insecure. I am at a loss as to how to break this. The fence is electric. I have dotted hay nets around the place, which was suggested by a friend as well. I am very close to be kicked out of my grazing because of it. Can you help?

Monty's Answer: Horses are herd animals. Some horses are in more deep need of constant company than others. The horse that is perfectly happy while solo is rare. In the case of your horse, it seems that there is an intense desire to be in an environment with a companion.

While it is quite possible that this individual would require the company of another horse, often times a different species will do. I have seen horses settle and become friends with sheep, goats, calves, donkeys and I even remember a Thoroughbred trainer who had a horse that simply had to be with this parrot.

The nervous characteristics of the individual that you describe will probably respond to a friend quite well. The art of creating a reasonable relationship with your horse is more likely to be challenged by over-bonding than it is by under-bonding. Horses such as yours are a challenge but, like challenging children, they can be a lot of fun to deal with at the same time.

One must realize and accept the fact that there is a time commitment necessary in dealing with a horse such as yours which is likely to be quite substantial. I enjoy working with these types of challenges but then I guess its fair to tell you I have been accused many times of being maniacal in my desire to better understand the workings of the equine mind.

- Monty

NEW SECTION Monty's Principles for People

Question: I recently attended a teacher conference where your concepts were taught to help us learn new skills to help improve our teaching and our classroom. Would you please share how you overcame the ‘baggage’ in your life to become the success you are today? Who helped you through your difficult family time as a young person? Why didn't the teacher that gave you a grade F on your ‘dream’ paper have a negative affect on you? I teach 7th & 8th grade and I want to help them develop their character as well as their education.

Answer: Obviously I have no idea whether you read my first book or not, The Man Who Listens to Horses. If you did read it you were able to discover that two people were quite helpful to me during my growing up years. Sister Agnes Patricia, my 8th grade teacher, was probably the most positive human influence in my life. I also found great assistance from Mr Bill Dorrance.

Sister Agnes Patricia came to know my father and was well aware of the extremely negative influence that he was through physical abuse. She taught me how to live without hating him and how to believe in myself. This wonderful teacher brought me to understand that the use of violence was a control mechanism and not the function of education. It was Sister Agnes Patricia who showed me that violence often followed generational patterns in the dynamics of the family. She convinced me that I could break the chain.

Bill Dorrance introduced me to a mindset different from conventional where training horse is concerned. He was the first one to make me aware that a trainer could be conscious of the horses’ needs during the training process. Mr. Dorrance went on to affect many people of the next generation of horsemen.

Having acknowledged the efforts of these two individuals, I must immediately reach to another specie for most of the credit for changing my life. Horses, and particularly the mustang, were without a doubt responsible for the major portion of my education. While it was two human individuals there were literally thousands of four-legged teachers who showed that violence was never the answer. It was the horses that constantly reinforced the embryonic concepts that were growing in my brain since about the age of four. The pure response of the mustang consistently leads me to moderate disciplinary tactics and to listen to and observe the needs of these equine individuals. I suspect that I wasn’t an easy student but I believe that their consistency and persistence was the answer.

The F from Mr. Fowler was a shock to say the least. Sure I was discouraged and even depressed for awhile. In one way, I suppose it caused me to limit my expectations for great achievement. In another way however there was this challenge that came my way and loomed up at me begging for the strongest effort I could muster to reach my goals. When Mr. Fowler came to my Farm and introduced his friends to my property, it was gratifying to the tenth power. All credit to him. Perhaps the last 40 years or so has been a reflection of that affirmation.

Place no limits on the goals of your students and encourage them to set their sites as high as they can justify. The human being is capable of far more than we tend to realize. Do what you can to encourage great aspiration and give equal effort to attend to the needs of negative students who seem to you to be less than fully committed to their own successes.

-Monty

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Look for these upcoming issues!

• Highlights from Monty’s Tours in Perth, England, Switzerland and Holland
• Monty meets Maddison again to hear about her heroic comeback to horses!
• 2006 Monty Roberts newly Certified Instructors
• Whipless Racing Progress Downunder

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