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10/31/07: I know you mentioned that you have Joined-Up with other species besides horses. I am very familiar with your methods and was wondering if these methods would work on camels. I have worked with horses my whole life and now I am starting to work with camels. The old method is to use force (whips, ropes, cattle prod, etc.) when teaching camels to lead, ride, etc. Nobody has really tried anything different and I was curious if you have ever worked with camels and what techniques you preferred.

10/24/07: Does the size of the pen matter?

10/17/07: My horse lives out in a very large camp (+-50Ha) with 5 other horses. They are very easy to "catch" and ride because of practising "Join-Up". I do most of my riding in the veld, alone for about 2 hours 3 times a week.

I DO have a problem though, when trying to mount from a mounting block SUCH AS AN ANTHILL in the veld. He won't stand whilst trying to mount from a mounting block, but rather swings his behind away from me, THEN stands.

I thought of placing a long rein on the off side, around his body, length-wise around and behind his tail and holding that rein securely, then try and mount but he is too "cute" for that. Nothing seems to work. I have tried "patience"...but haven't wanted to get him UPSET from my persistence, but rather lengthen my stirrup leather on the near side and mount like that. Can you advise please? Norma, Eastern Cape in South Africa called Grahamstown

10/3/07: I am wondering if there is anyway to stop the "its dinner time" reaction from my horse. I am at a boarding stable and they are on a feeding schedule of morning and night. I try and avoid these times as much as possible, however in the evening it is hard as that is my only time to get out there. Many times I am in the middle of either working him, trail riding or brushing him down, when the sound of the gates start and he knows its dinner time and all his pasture mates are coming in to eat. It has almost been a scary situation as he gets into a huge fuss over this if he can not go into the stall. Aside from letting him eat and wait then go on to do what I want is there anything that I can do training to stop this behavior?

Thank you so much Monty!

Sheila,
Minnesota

Answers to October 2007 Ask Monty Questions

Question: I know you mentioned that you have Joined-Up with other species besides horses. I am very familiar with your methods and was wondering if these methods would work on camels. I have worked with horses my whole life and now I am starting to work with camels. The old method is to use force (whips, ropes, cattle prod, etc.) when teaching camels to lead, ride, etc. Nobody has really tried anything different and I was curious if you have ever worked with camels and what techniques you preferred.

Monty's Answer: My work with camels I must admit has been very limited. Having said that, my exposure to other people’s work with camels has been rather extensive. The area where camels are most extensively trained is in the Middle East. Dubai and the Arab Emirates are the global center for camel training. I have been to Dubai many times and several of the nearby countries.

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum is the world’s largest owner of Thoroughbred racehorses, Arabian racehorses and racing camels. He has asked me to study them and work to get them to go faster. I have students in this area who do the work with camels and they tell me that they do respond to my concepts. While I have not personally done much of it, I’ll take their word for it.

I might just add that I have been told on several occasions that my concepts are very effective with Llamas and Alpacas as well as camels. Once more I have not personally done this work but I am assuming that the people involved with this species are giving me correct information.

- Monty

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Question: Does the size of the pen matter?

Monty's Answer: Sure, it matters. I would advise that anyone using my methods become familiar with the round pen. It is true that you can accomplish Join-Up® in almost any area, but a round pen is an extremely valuable tool. Round pens have been in existence for many centuries. There is evidence that they were used thousands of years ago on the Asian continent. Techniques in the round pen have varied, but a similar theme has survived through the millennia.

Round pens have been constructed of many different materials: logs, planks, stones or even tires. They have varied in size. I have seen round pens 30 feet (approx.10 meters), and I have seen round pens 150 feet (approx. 50 meters) in diameter. On Flag Is Up Farms I built my round pens of solid plank walls approximately 8 feet high. I used a diameter measurement of 50 feet (approx. 16 meters). This is the optimum size for normal saddle horses of 14 to 16 hands. I work principally with Thoroughbreds, Quarter Horses and Arabians, and my 50-foot pens work beautifully. I have, in the past, dealt with significant numbers of Icelandic horses and Welsh ponies 11 to 12 hands in height. I find it easier to deal with these smaller animals in a pen approximately 46 feet (approx. 15 meters) in diameter. My work in Germany often requires me to deal with Warmbloods well over 16 hands, and I feel that a diameter of 52 to 54 feet (approx. 17 to 18 meters) is more appropriate for these horses.

The factor that I observe most closely in ­determining pen size is the capability of the horse to canter, maintaining the same lead front and rear. I have noticed that most horses of, let’s say, 16 hands, will tend to travel disunited (left lead in front and right lead behind, or vice versa) in a round pen of 46 feet in diameter. Those same horses will travel comfortably in a 50-foot round pen. It seems fair you could ask why I do not use a round pen of 60 feet (approx. 20 meters) for all sizes of horses, as this would provide an environment for proper leading across the full spectrum of breeds. While that conclusion is true, it requires the trainer himself to negotiate a circle much larger in the center of the round pen. So, it should be considered optimum when the round pen is as small as possible allowing for a comfortable canter. Having accomplished this, the trainer travels the shortest distance to complete his task. When I work in a 50-foot round pen, the circle that I personally use is about 8 feet in diameter. When I work in a 60-foot round pen that measurement increases to approximately 14 feet, resulting in a much greater demand on me. The increased energy output makes it far more difficult to operate in a comfortable and relaxed mode.

In recent years, I have designed my own version of a portable round pen and it is what I now use for my demonstrations worldwide. To date, I have worked with more than 3,000 horses using this type of enclosure with virtually no injuries or significant mishaps.

My round pens are certainly not intended as places of trauma, quite the opposite. The round pen is my boardroom, my meeting place and my second home. This piece of equipment is important during Join-Up and is a place where the student of equine behavior can observe the horse’s natural language. If given a horse, but no bridle, halter, line or round pen, I could still achieve Join-Up by communicating with the horse using my body language. I’ve proven that one can do Join-Up without the use of a round pen in open country; however, it takes longer and requires far more effort.

- Monty

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Question: My horse lives out in a very large camp (+-50Ha) with 5 other horses. They are very easy to "catch" and ride because of practising "Join-Up". I do most of my riding in the veld, alone for about 2 hours 3 times a week.

I DO have a problem though, when trying to mount from a mounting block SUCH AS AN ANTHILL in the veld. He won't stand whilst trying to mount from a mounting block, but rather swings his behind away from me, THEN stands.

I thought of placing a long rein on the off side, around his body, length-wise around and behind his tail and holding that rein securely, then try and mount but he is too "cute" for that. Nothing seems to work. I have tried "patience"...but haven't wanted to get him UPSET from my persistence, but rather lengthen my stirrup leather on the near side and mount like that. Can you advise please? Norma, Eastern Cape in South Africa called Grahamstown

Monty's Answer: Your horse should stand for you to mount without moving one foot. He should remain standing until you are comfortably in the saddle and then he should rein back for the first two steps, stand again and then walk when asked. This can be done and it can be done rather easily once you know the technique. I have a DVD called Fix-Up and it will give you “standing to mount” along with several other remedial problems. You should be aware that failing to stand for mounting is the #1 producer of serious injury worldwide.

The Dually Halter is the piece of equipment that I recommend to execute the lesson on the DVD. Your horse should stand whether it’s for a mounting block or to mount from the ground. One should be sure that you have a correct fit on the saddle and that your horse is getting no pain from the mounting process. Fully schooled to the Dually Halter one should discipline the horse with the Dually anytime there is the slightest movement. If you follow the procedures that I have outlined your problems are over.

-Monty

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Question: I am wondering if there is anyway to stop the "its dinner time" reaction from my horse. I am at a boarding stable and they are on a feeding schedule of morning and night. I try and avoid these times as much as possible, however in the evening it is hard as that is my only time to get out there. Many times I am in the middle of either working him, trail riding or brushing him down, when the sound of the gates start and he knows its dinner time and all his pasture mates are coming in to eat. It has almost been a scary situation as he gets into a huge fuss over this if he can not go into the stall. Aside from letting him eat and wait then go on to do what I want is there anything that I can do training to stop this behavior?

Thank you so much Monty!

Sheila,
Minnesota

Monty's Answer: Yes there is something that you can do. What I suggest is that you have a word with the principles at your boarding stable and make an agreement with them. The points of this agreement will be that when it is feeding time you will be allowed to take your horse away from the stable. Prior to feeding you will be allowed to take him to a turnout area or small paddock of some kind. Release your horse in this area well away from where horses are fed.

The normal feeding procedure should then be carried out but in fact your horse’s stall is fed without the horse being anywhere near it. Carry on with whatever you choose to do with your horse and when you have completed your daily routine lead your horse to a fed stall. Release him in it, close the door and go home.

Your horse should not be bothered during the process of eating. It is virtually certain that to do so will create bad habits. There is information on this subject in my textbook From My Hands To Yours but I have given you here the basic recommendations that I make.

- Monty

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